TL&DR - I told my boss how I really feel about my job during my performance review yesterday. The response I was expecting was "don't let the door hit you on the way out." The response that I got was "what can we do to make you stay?"
Current status: waiting to see what shakes out.
Background here. Reminder that my company is headquartered outside of the US and is in the business of being a dumpster fire. My boss however is great.
Sooo my performance review started like all other performance reviews. My boss (uh actually this person is my boss's boss since my boss is on maternity leave but ya get me) started with complements, said how great our team was doing, gave me a few feedback points on things that had gone wrong recently...and then she turned the mic over to me.
I babbled out a bunch of incoherent words, which I'll transcribe in as close to normal sentences as I can get. "I have been so happy to take over [boss's] job while she was on maternity leave. But now that she's coming back, I'm at a transition point. I feel that I've gone as far as I can in the job and that it's time to leave. Part of it is the job, and part of it is the way that this company treats people".
She asked what I meant. I'll spare you the details on the job stuff, and for the company side, my spiel was something like: "It's been two years. I haven't had a pay raise. Our insurance went up, not because the rates increased but because our leadership decided that US employees have it so good that they decided to pay less toward the premium. This means that I now effectively make less money than when I started. On top of that, when the company decided to delay paying the equity bonuses, we were basically forced into giving the company an interest free loan. That's now how I invest money. With the layoffs and [all of the other asinine things that you guys have come up with to save money] it really seems like the company is in huge financial trouble."
I was expecting to hear something like "This company is the greatest thing ever, I'm sorry you feel that way. Yep, let's get you outta here".
The response was more like "Out of all of this, the compensation part is the easiest to fix. I'm sorry that I didn't know that you weren't happy. What would your perfect job be?"
We talked about work stuff, which I'll let you replace with your own work situation.
Next we talked about the company. As predicted, she said that it is the greatest company ever! Layoffs aren't nice but they happen and every company is doing them. She can't think of another company in their country that has only done two rounds of layoffs! Plus our severance packages in the home country and the US are so generous!!!
I said that the US packages were not generous. Keeping someone on payroll into the next month to stretch out their insurance is better than nothing, but not generous. I reminded her that here in 'Murica we look to our employers to do what the government won't.
She said it didn't matter because I would never be laid off. Several times in the discussion she looped back "why do you think that would happen to you?" Alrighty, case closed I guess I don't need to have a care in world about layoffs or how this company treats people because they will never do that to me...at this moment in time.
She said that she thought that I should talk to her boss about the company's financial position because if I did I would feel so much better. She loves her boss, my experience with him is that anytime you have a question, he will be away from his desk and not answer.
She agreed with my points about pay and the delayed payment of bonuses, and repeated my description of "an interest free loan". She said that was the easiest problem in the world to fix and went after me for a number. I told her that when I interviewed at other companies that I asked for Dream Number as my base salary ($20k more than my current base salary). She repeated the number plus my bonus and said "are you sure" in a leading way so I said "fine, increase the bonus by $5k". [Reminder that my boss does not live in the US, so when she looks at my salary she just sees a number. She doesn't have a reference point for what it buys or if it's a big or a small number.]
This morning Bossy and I had another discussion about future projects. She asked why I never came to her before with my concerns about my job, and I said something a little more professional than "every time in the past when I've worked for a sucky company they keep sucking and the longer you stay the more they suck out of you. Once you get to the point where you're not happy the only option is to leave the circus".
Tomorrow I have a call with the next level up boss at which I will learn fabulous things about the company. I'm sure that it will be so great that I will immediately write a follow up post to share the wonder with you.
So here's where it stands: possibly there may be more money. Will it really be an extra $25k? Your guess is as good as mine. Regardless of the amount, am I for sale? Maybe. The conventional wisdom that I've always heard is never to take a counteroffer because it's a red flag that your company is messed up and the odds are high you'll be out the door again soon anyway.
The possibilities are:
- I get loads more money and am enticed by our upcoming projects so I stick around until the next time that I get pissed off or until I find a job that I like better.
- I get loads more money and am enticed by our upcoming projects but I would rather chill out and take a break from work so I say thanks but no thanks and leave at the end of the year as planned.
- The company cheaps out and offers no extra money or makes it something ridiculous like stock or a retention bonus instead of increased pay so I say thanks but no thanks and leave at the end of the year.
- Something else happens and I either stay or leave.
That's the latest! Have you ever gotten a counteroffer? Have you ever had a bad work situation that you were able to turn around?
Congrats on the counteroffer!
ReplyDeleteI'm glad they did that, it says a lot about you as an employee.
They gladly pay you USD 25'000 or even more just to make you stay. And they will promise you a lot of shiny new projects. Next-level boss swings into action and adds to the promises.
In the end, all you have is shinier handcuffs.
It's a tricky one, but you'll make the right decision. Go Birchie!!
Eh we'll see if the 25k makes goes from being hot air to on paper. It's fun to be wanted though.
DeleteCongrats indeed. It goes to show you never know how things will shake out.
ReplyDeleteThis feels like I'm on the edge of my seat at the end of a weekly reality show episode! It's gripping, Birchie! Also, I know it's exhausting and been a LONG haul for you, but kudos for sticking things out and for having so many options now. I feel like more money is great (but based on personal experience with my husband this can definitely be a case of shinier handcuffs as Catrina mentions above), but also if you walk away you'd made peace with that option, too. It's a great place to be in and you've worked hard and put a lot of thought and effort into things. Gold stars <3
Thanks! You've got it right, I might stick around for a bit longer...or not.
DeleteWoof! I guess this may be a wait and see situation. Like, will things really improve? And, actually, do you want them to? If things got better and you got paid more, would you be able to get rid of the sucky feeling and actually enjoy this job? If the answer is no and that you would just be plodding along but making more money, I would say that the solution is (a) set a definite time period for leaving, maybe in 6 months when you can have saved an extra $12,500 or (b) just leave. Happiness is more important than money and I don't think it is worth slogging along just to make $10,000. Either go have some fun with your life or get another happier job where you can go to work with a smile on your face. Get out from under the suck! However, I think staying for a little while after they make any changes may make sense because maybe it WILL get better and you will be happy. Looking forward to the updates!
ReplyDeleteYes, at best this job would be entertaining, but not a passion. I might be willing to sit around and stash some extra $$$...or I might move forward with leaving. Eh who knows.
DeleteOh this is very interesting!!! More money on the table definitely makes things a bit more complicated, decision wise. I mean, we all have a price. I guess this goes to show that you are incredibly valued, but it doesn't really solve your "I don't like the way this company rolls" vibe. Lots to think about on your end for sure. I'm so glad you had that talk. I remember having a talk with one of my bosses, saying that I thought I deserved a raise and he DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT MY SALARY WAS (I worked for a huge multinational, there were layers) and when I told him he was like "you're goddamned right you need a raise" and then it happened. It was...easy! I couldn't believe it. I guess the squeaky wheel works.
ReplyDeleteIt's more complicated but...more flattering that them just saying "'k bye".
DeleteWhen my old company was still in the startup phase, there was no rhyme or reason to raises. Some managers were always pushing for their peeps to get mo' money and other managers were oblivious so their people didn't get raises. There are situations where managers just don't get what's going on until people speak up.
I am not too surprised that your company tried to keep you. This is what I call "anecdata" but after going through the interview process to hire someone, I can see from that the labor market is VERY tight and it takes a lot of work to find someone and then you run the risk that they aren't great. So you are a known quantity and probably more valued than you realized, hence their willingness to pay you more. More money is fine but not great if it doesn't solve the problem which is working for a dumpster fire company and not being happy. I have had more terrible work environments than great ones, and the terrible jobs never worked out, or I couldn't bare to stay around long enough to see if they would improve. I have zero regrets about leaving those jobs because it led me to my current job - which isn't perfect but I like the culture, my boss, and my colleagues. The boss/colleague aspect is what is keeping me around, and generally speaking, I think my company is doing its best. We have had several rounds of layoffs but it sounds like my company is far more generous than yours! I'm not familiar with your industry, but I don't know how you can say keeping someone on the payroll for another month is generous? I guess generous compared to, I don't know, being laid off at McDonalds? *shrugs shoulders*
ReplyDeleteYES YES YES. I'VE NEVER SEEN A SITUATION WHERE A BAD SITUATION GOT BETTER. At best this job will just bring in more money.
DeleteI'm used to seeing you know, proper severance payments. Sure if someone's only been there a year it might be just a paycheck or two. But some of the people who were laid off had been there for 5-6 years. I would have expected something like 3-6 months of severance.
Oh wow! Congrats on the counter! They know it would be a huge mistake to let you go!
ReplyDeleteWell...the counter isn't real until it shows up on a piece of paper. We'll see!
DeleteWell, I still say go with your gut when it's time to decide, like when you don't know what you're going to order at a restaurant until it's your turn and something just pops out of your mouth. But the meeting sounds like a mix of infuriating and flattering, so it could have been worse, for sure. It's still your decision, not theirs, if you stay or not!
ReplyDeleteCorrect!
DeleteInteresting. Counteroffers are basically the only way to get a raise in higher ed. Outside of getting promoted to Associate and Full Professor, getting another job offer and then taking it to the administration to match it is the only way to get a raise. My husband has had a couple of counteroffers and we always take them because we'd rather not move. It's interesting that a counteroffer makes a company look weak in the corporate world.
ReplyDeleteANYWAY. I'm interested in whether or not more money would be appealing to you. It seems like this job is really hurting your mental health. Not sure how much more money would help with that!
That's super interesting that counteroffers are the norm in higher ed but supposedly bad news in corporate. But I also wonder if the "don't take a counteroffer" axiom comes from the same folks who look down on job hopping.
DeleteYou are 100% correct that this job is not helping in the mental health department. The way I think about it is that if they want to put an extra $25k in my bank account, maybe I would stay for another year or so just to really shore things up and then go the FIRE route. But if they come back with a small raise then it's not worth it to stay.
Wow, 25K more "just like that"? Who knew it was going to be so easy. Haha. You just have to speak up.
ReplyDeleteRight.
I've never gotten a counter-offer ( as you know, government employee here, no negotiating powers)... but at least they do wan to keep you (for now)? I think your plan is solid. What do you have to lose?
Talk is cheap. Let's see if that 25k makes it on to a piece of paper;-)
DeleteI'm down to give my job another year or so IF the money makes it stupid for me to leave.
Oooh, suspense!!! I'm late commenting on this so I'm wondering if there will be an update any minute. I'm sure this was unexpected. Should be interesting to see how this all plays out!
ReplyDeleteNo update yet. I'm guessing that it will take a week or two to make it on to paper. If I was a betting woman I'd go with the company trying to play games by making the money contingent on staying with the company. But we shall see.
Delete$25k is a lot of money, and in my mind if my company were willing to give me that to stay, I would be resentful that they hadn't given it to me sooner. Like, you obviously knew you were underpaying me. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteI've never had a counteroffer. My last job paid so miserably that when I changed jobs I had something like an 80% increase (including bonuses, which of course can vary based on company performance and so on.) When I tendered my resignation, my boss asked me if I would give her until the end of the day to see how much more she could get me, and I said OK, even though I really disliked the job. Because it was a known entity, and I really liked my team. Then I did some reading on the internet and read what you said, that it generally isn't a great idea to take a counteroffer, because then the company sees you differently. Not necessarily as more valuable, but definitely as more expensive, and as someone who is not committed to the job, etc. Then I started thinking, if they could afford to almost double my salary, WHY THE HELL HAD THEY BEEN PAYING ME SO POORLY FOR THE LAST 6 YEARS??? So I got mad. In the end I would not have taken the increase for that reason, but they weren't able to offer me any more money anyway, so it was a moot point.
I worked in higher education for a couple of years (admin) and what NGS said was right, counteroffers were the only way to make more money, outside of promotion. And at my husband's last job, a couple of people had good luck coming in with offers from other companies and saying, "I need more money, but I'd prefer to stay here. Can we make that happen?"
And then there's a friend who tried to quit, and his company got him to stay by putting him through business school. And then a few years later he tried to quit and they gave him a big raise. And he was making good money to begin with. He does not like his job or his company, but he is trying to play the long game and save money for retirement. And when he decided he wanted to move to another state, they found a job for him in the company in the new location, same pay, less responsibility. So he's one person that has made it work for him.
Oh so much to say about this...yes in many ways every feeling that I've had about this company has been confirmed. And will I need to quit the next time that I want a raise like your friend?
DeleteAnd then let's scream about your 80% PAY INCREASE BY CHANGING JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT THE FREAK?????? I think that once I got the offer for the 80% increase my next move would have been to walk out the door of my old company on the spot. Yes having gone from salary only to the world of salary + bonus + equity, it's true that a lot of my pay is from the extras but jeez not 80% of it.
As NGS and Kyria said, this is Not How It Is Done in higher ed, so this is completely fascinating to me. I have to confess that I would be more tempted by the money, and also by the thought that terrible-is-still-a-job. I have a terrible fear of being unemployed/unemployable, and so sticking with a known but horrible option would probably be something I'd consider. I am so glad you are not in that position! You need to enjoy your job. They are not paying you enough for all the crap you put up with. I hope this all has a pro-Birchie resolution - we are certainly all out here cheering for you.
ReplyDelete